oneohtwo's VR6 - New Engine!

[Keyo 47]

Great work I notice on my rebuild from Stealth that he mentioned timing chain + MK4 upgarde.

[oneohtwo 8]

On 5/13/2020 at 9:27 PM, ger040 said:

on youtube the humble mechanic does a very good guide on chain replacement and setting timing on these engines 

i know very little about the vr6 but that gasket at the chain is a strange set up

oh and forgot to say very nice work there

I do enjoy the Humble Mechanic videos - I had to resort to him in the end to find out how he did it! We're quite lucky he picked the VR6 for the whole series. And thanks very much!

On 5/13/2020 at 11:41 PM, easypops said:

Great work, I did this fairly recently and it took me a couple of goes before I was sure I had the top chain right. Same issue with the cam locking tool, I bought a 2nd one and once doubled up they fitted much better 😁👍

Good thinking! I couldn't be arsed waiting another week or so for another, but you'd think it would be an easy thing to get right!

Yeah, the Mark 4 upgrade is the yellow tensioner. The original piece is resin riveted onto a bit of metal which as you can see from my earlier pictures isn't a great design. The upgrade part is just a solid plastic piece, so won't come apart and shred the chains...

Edited May 15, 2020 by oneohtwo

[ABV-VR6 12]

Things are progressing well, good job! I wish I would be doing the same, that's where I should be with my project as well but with the virus around, no one wants to work on my head right now... So assembling the engine back together along with the timing chains is on the back burner unfortunately...

The Humble Mechanic's videos really helped me pulling the engine out and I'm definitely thankful for his videos.

Reading the problems you had with the head gasket I for sure will go with the metal MK4 one. Glad you fixed the issue though.

Keep up the good work, Cheers

[oneohtwo 8]

On 5/16/2020 at 5:28 AM, ABV-VR6 said:

Reading the problems you had with the head gasket I for sure will go with the metal MK4 one. Glad you fixed the issue though.

I think that's probably sensible, just gives you peace of mind. Funnily enough the virus lockdown has been a bit of a bonus for me on the rebuild! Just given me far more free time to work on it, and most places have still been open for delivering tools, parts, etc...

Not too much more progress to report, got the sump back on:

 

I'm pretty pleased with how this turn out as it was a mess of rust and oil when I got it off. I was just going to buy a replacement but bit of cleaning work and Bilt Hamber products has got it quite nice:

 

That's part way through the rust treatment, so it was a lot worse

Can still see the pitting, but I quite like that. Shows some age. Got a few layers of Bilt Hydrate, hammerite stone chip and Hammerite on so hopefully will last a bit. No  doubt the it'll get chipped on the first trip out and rust away again!

 

[oneohtwo 8]

Tidied up some other bits as well:

Got the alternator refurbed at QX Components and gave a quick spray in silver when it got back to keep it fresh. And some 288 calipers that I have had sitting around for years:

Jury is a bit out on the orange. I was going to do them silver or grey, but then thought I'd give orange ago to tie into my orange subframe as a theme... but you'll not really see the subframe so not sure how apparent that will be! Worried it might look a bit Ford RS... but will see when I get it back on the car. Won't take much to paint em up again!

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by oneohtwo

[oneohtwo 8]

Been a bit quiet on here for a few months as I've been working on something a bit different, which has held up getting the engine back in the car. Hopefully should have an update on that soon so watch this space!

In the meantime I did finally get around to fitting the 288 brake upgrade and B12s on one side:

 

 

(it was dark by the time I finished! Will try and get a better pic in the daylight)

A couple of things:

1) The clearance between the caliper and the wheel spokes is cigarette paper thin! But I guess if it clears, it clears.

2) The caliper guide pins on the 288s do not tighten very much. First time tightening with my bigger ratchet they jumped the threads when I got so tight, so I switched to the smaller one added a bit of thread lock and tightened as much as I could. Anyone else had this? Or know how tight they should be? Obviously they're not clamping anything so shouldn't need big torque, but not something you want coming undone mid-motorway run. - edit to add something isn't right here, just watched a vid of someone doing these on a passat and he tightened the guide pins to 20 ft-lbs (about 27 Nm), when I got nowhere near 20 Nm before they jumped the thread. Guess I am going to have to try and re-tap the thread or get new carriers?

3) The disks seem to foul the splash guard where there is the tab that squeezes between the disk and the ABS ring. Disks don't look particularly thicker, and I thought the 288s were a straight swap. Anything I have missed here?

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by oneohtwo

[tonedef 9]

That looks colourful, love it!

You’re right about the space between calliper and wheel rim, from experience you’ll have to keep an eye on tyre fitters when they fit balance weight or you’ll be wondering why the wheels jam up!

[Keyo 47]

Going to be a minter hats off too you .👍

[oneohtwo 8]

3 hours ago, tonedef said:

You’re right about the space between calliper and wheel rim, from experience you’ll have to keep an eye on tyre fitters when they fit balance weight or you’ll be wondering why the wheels jam up!

It's actually between the calliper and the wheel spokes! It's a little bit tight...

Cheers both! Just annoying I'll have to get the calliper back off to sort out the guide pins. It's probably alright with the threadlock but I don't really want to take chances where the brakes are concerned...

 

[Dox 23]

As the outer pad wears down the clearance will get greater.

Is it the slide pin that's stripped or the carrier?

[oneohtwo 8]

I've had a double check and it's the carrier annoyingly. One is pretty loose in there now and won't tighten at all. It's on both carriers oddly - when the first stripped I swapped the other calliper in, tried to tighten them 20Nm and it stripped as well. I have since found somewhere online that says they should be 25 Nm for the Passat ( which these are) so not sure why it's happened on all guide pins? 20 Nm isn't particularly high... bottom setting on my torque wrench!

They were second hand so maybe been overtightened previously? Or perhaps the threads just rusted away a bit.

Not sure if OEM are still available, had a quick look online and only seem to be unknown brands which I'd rather avoid.

 

 

[Dox 23]

I've not heard of 288mm carriers stripping, on MK4s 256mm and  280mm which are cast to the knuckle its very common

[oneohtwo 8]

Hmmm, yes just come across a few threads of that nature on their forums when googling. I suppose the 288 carrier is also a cast piece so could suffer the same fate, especially if a bit old.

A few of them seem to use Helicoil as a repair. Not sure it's worth the time and expense if new ones aren't a lot.

Edited November 30, 2020 by oneohtwo

[Dox 23]

I've owned 10+ cars with 288s or 312s and non had this issue, I owned a 280mm from new and it stripped the passenger side, I broke a 256mm car and sold the knuckles to a garage owner who needed them for a customers car stuck on his ramp because the threads stripped

[oneohtwo 8]

How tight do you usually do the pins?

[Dox 23]

I just nip them up tbh, I’ve never lubed them.

[oneohtwo 8]

Hmmm, maybe I'd have been OK instead of trying to a specific torque.

Anyway, nearly £300.00 for OEM replacements so I guess it's the Helicoil fix or try one of the weird brands...

[Dox 23]

Helix oils are supposed to be stronger than existing once repaired but the pins need to be perfectly parallel otherwise they’ll bind.

 

plenty if used ones, lots of people have upgraded to 312s from 288s

[oneohtwo 8]

On 12/1/2020 at 3:13 PM, Dox said:

Helix oils are supposed to be stronger than existing once repaired but the pins need to be perfectly parallel otherwise they’ll bind.

 

plenty if used ones, lots of people have upgraded to 312s from 288s

True. Think I'm going to give the helicoil a go first.

Anyway, I have finally finished the other project I have been working on, as mentioned above. It's taken 8 months, a lot of heartache, swearing and expense but it's done!

 

 

A full carbon fibre rad support! Mine old one was rotten on the inside (I think I've got a picture of the section I had to remove) and was only going to get worse. I couldn't source a replacement, so this seemed the only option left.  One upshot it's a hell of a lot lighter - about ~0.5kg compared to ~6 kg for the original. Not a massive difference but reduces a bit of the weight hung over the end of the car.

I've now drilled all the holes for the splitter bracket, oil cooler and slam panel. Also added some stainless inserts where the splitter bracket clips on to improve wear and add a bit of strength. 

It's been holding up my rebuild since about May so I'm hugely relieved to have got that done. Shouldn't be any hold up now, but I guess with these cars you never know... Anyway, it's not absolutely perfect but I am pretty chuffed!

[Cressa 44]

That does look fantastic, well done. Did you make it? I know that stuff is not cheap to do.

[Nmdsec 10]

That looks amazing,you obviously have some serious talent,shame you can’t produce these as I’m sure you would have a lot of buyers

[GrahamU 6]

OMG, thats brilliant, Great job 

Do you have a mould for it now?

[fendervg 33]

That looks absolutely amazing, well done and some job. As devil's advocate - is it strong enough in terms of structural integrity or was the original rad support purely cosmetic rather than being able to soak up  some front end impact? I guess most of them would have lost a lot of strength at this stage anyways, but just thinking of safety and MOT etc.

[seanl82 23]

36 minutes ago, fendervg said:

That looks absolutely amazing, well done and some job. As devil's advocate - is it strong enough in terms of structural integrity or was the original rad support purely cosmetic rather than being able to soak up  some front end impact? I guess most of them would have lost a lot of strength at this stage anyways, but just thinking of safety and MOT etc.

They're not structural, they're very light and pretty much just support the radiator. I'd hazard a guess that a carbon one is much stronger, as the OE ones are no more than 1mm thick.

 

[oneohtwo 8]

Thanks everyone!

18 hours ago, Cressa said:

That does look fantastic, well done. Did you make it? I know that stuff is not cheap to do.

I did make it yep! I found a company called Easy Composites who do some very good tutorial videos and supply everything, which made it all look quite straightforward (because they're experts! 🤔) so thought I could give it ago. Turns out it's extremely unforgiving and mistakes were made. 

 When I initially budgeted things I thought it was reasonably affordable (not cheap by any means but not unattainable), but that didn't factor in the mistakes and having to buy extra materials, and a lot of consumables, so I don't think it's something to do on a budget. This one was my third attempt, and my second mould so it did rack up a bit. Fortunately I am lucky enough to have the resources so that I could carry on, but for a while I did wonder if I was just throwing good money after bad. 

17 hours ago, Nmdsec said:

That looks amazing,you obviously have some serious talent,shame you can’t produce these as I’m sure you would have a lot of buyers

17 hours ago, GrahamU said:

OMG, thats brilliant, Great job 

Do you have a mould for it now?

Thanks! I don't think you need any particular skills or talent to do it, just a lot of patience and perseverance, plus a bit of technical knowledge. I started doing this last Feb... and as mentioned had to do two moulds, and three attempts at the final part so it was extremely trying at times.

I do now have a mould and when I started I partly had in mind that I could make some for others if it went well. However, given how stressful the whole thing was I am less keen 😂. I'm also in the process of moving house as well as trying to finish my rebuild so certainly not for a while. It's not just making the part, but positioning all the holes that is difficult, I've already missed a few a bit and had to enlarge them, tweak them here and there to get to fit - properly you'd make a template/jig, but I don't really have the facilities to do this. So I don't know. I may revisit this in future.

17 hours ago, fendervg said:

That looks absolutely amazing, well done and some job. As devil's advocate - is it strong enough in terms of structural integrity or was the original rad support purely cosmetic rather than being able to soak up  some front end impact? I guess most of them would have lost a lot of strength at this stage anyways, but just thinking of safety and MOT etc.

I did give this a lot of thought before setting out, and I came to the conclusion that it's not really part of the crash structure - as Sean says it's quite lightweight and only really supports the rad. The bumper member is I believe the main crash structure. It is a large rectangular section so will carry far more load than the rad support and spans between the chassis legs - that will be taking the majority of load in a crash and transferring it to the monocoque. The actual engine cross member supporting the engine is much beefier as well, so will do more, although I have a feeling that in a major accident the bolts securing onto the chassis legs may well shear so that it drops down. The bumper is locked into the chassis if this happens, so again seems to be doing most of the work - that said having looked at my bumper, it's pretty rotten, with some sizable holes in it... 😬

The carbon fibre piece should be about equivalent in strength and stiffness to the steel original, as they two materials have similar properties, give or take, and the recommendation is to make the carbon piece a similar thickness to the original part. It is actually possible to flex the steel piece by hand in places even though it feels weighty. 

Only area of concern is when the bumper bolts are removed and the crossmember is fixed to the rad support only via the single middle M8 bolt - I have done a rough calc based on the weight of the engine and some known properties of carbon fibre at the more conservative end of the scale (structural engineer by trade), and I see no reason why it shouldn't do the job like the steel one. However, that doesn't account for the vagaries of the production process, and I can't really test it to destruction to make sure - so just to be on the safe side I have had a couple of steel brackets fabricated to sit under the carbon fibre which should provide some additional support. Will always prop the engine anyway so should be fine.

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by oneohtwo