Green Storm Turbo - Sold :(

[Kevin Bacon 5]

0-60 means jack in the real world. In gear times is where it's at and I don't think anyone's timed a VRT officially but they are feckin rapid. A 400hp VRT that gets a good launch can do late 12s 1/4 mile. What does the standard VR6 do it in? 15-16 seconds?

[Jim 1]

As Kev says the in-gear performance is huge - I think the car punches above it's weight because it weighs so little (CrazyDave had his VR on a local weighbridge some years back and I think he said it was 1260kg - minus driver obviously).

 

That means that assuming the car is putting out 400BHP you're putting out approximately 317BHP/tonne - which puts you up with cars like the R8 V10, Lotus Exige S, TVR T350C, etc.

 

And standard VR6 gearing is, I think, good for around 177MPH so.. no reason why you wouldn't be able to keep up with some of those way past when they expect you would. Provided you were feeling brave enough.

[clumpy1 11]

I have done with 290bhp :cuckoo:

[coullstar 0]

Imagine what its like with a 3.68FD as well. Mine would go off the clock with ease. I remember one evening I was in 5th going along at 80ish and just put the foot down, the car just pulled and pulled all the way of the clock in a very short distance with no fuss.

One thing to through into the mix is how long to you think you would keep the car? I was lucky an pretty much sold my car for what it cost but it could take a long while to sell. A standardish VR is much easier to sell as is any fairly standard car.

[clumpy1 11]

Imagine what its like with a 3.68FD as well. Mine would go off the clock with ease. I remember one evening I was in 5th going along at 80ish and just put the foot down, the car just pulled and pulled all the way of the clock in a very short distance with no fuss.

One thing to through into the mix is how long to you think you would keep the car? I was lucky an pretty much sold my car for what it cost but it could take a long while to sell. A standardish VR is much easier to sell as is any fairly standard car.

I'm not sure what final drive is in mine i presume it is standard VR6 though Stoney had it rebuilt when getting the peloquin installed i haven't went all out in it yet :D

[Portent 0]

I think you need to decide whether you simply want a faster car or a faster more modern car. If you just want to go faster then a turbo in the Corrado makes sense. But if you want something a little more confortable and modern then it won't compare to an M3 which will certainly be superior.

 

It's a combination of the raw nature of the Corrado and the obscurity that make me love it. The icing on the cake after Stanford Hall was on the drive back when I passed a white mk2 GTI on the M25 and we gave each other a mutual thumbs up. You won't get that in an E46.

[Billzeebub 1]

I think you need to decide whether you simply want a faster car or a faster more modern car. If you just want to go faster then a turbo in the Corrado makes sense. But if you want something a little more confortable and modern then it won't compare to an M3 which will certainly be superior.

 

It's a combination of the raw nature of the Corrado and the obscurity that make me love it. The icing on the cake after Stanford Hall was on the drive back when I passed a white mk2 GTI on the M25 and we gave each other a mutual thumbs up. You won't get that in an E46.

 

Like

[clumpy1 11]

I think you need to decide whether you simply want a faster car or a faster more modern car. If you just want to go faster then a turbo in the Corrado makes sense. But if you want something a little more confortable and modern then it won't compare to an M3 which will certainly be superior.

 

It's a combination of the raw nature of the Corrado and the obscurity that make me love it. The icing on the cake after Stanford Hall was on the drive back when I passed a white mk2 GTI on the M25 and we gave each other a mutual thumbs up. You won't get that in an E46.

Can't see it mate the whole point is taking everything into account including running cost's etc the corrado win's hand's down simple as i have demolished an M3 with 290bhp and i mean demolished totally agree with your later comment's i had an LDV Maxus sitting beside me on way back i was trying not to look but in the end had a look the guy was waving and giving the thumb's up so i gave it a squirt and then slowed back to cruising speed when he came past he was so happy they will always be appreciated more than any M3.

[chazrad 0]

I absolutely love my VRT. I've owned the car too long now to consider parting with it unless things get really bad...I hope they won't. I think the kids would go first!! But seriously, you don't drive it like a loon everywhere; you can't, just like you couldn't drive a Ferrari like a loon everywhere, and I certainly wouldn't thank you for one of them. Like so many comments here, it the exclusivity of ownership, the "I always wanted one of them" comments from passers by on a petrol station forecourt, the noise it makes and the friendship of fellow owners that makes me want to keep it. Going fast is great, but its going fast in a Corrado that I wanted. The VRT is, like Jim says, devastating. 40-100mph blows me away everytime: 4th gear is crazy, 3rd gear is insane; and it seldom troubles the traction (with a Peloquin) in the dry. Fuel consumption is not as bad as I expected - like Kev says, get somewhere around 28-30 in normal driving. Although I've just had a longer 5th gear fitted to help economy on the motorway. On a gentle cruise (70-80) before I would see 33-34. I now see 36 which is not bad for a VR of any description. And the roll-in power is more than adequate at that speed to offset the slight loss in acceleration at motorway speeds as a result,versus most cars you'll meet.

I think frankly that if its time to move on from a Corrado, then its time and you shouldn't do it on the grounds of lacking performance alone; but if you still love the thing given (like me) how much money and love you've put to it, improving the performance of what y've already got is the way forward. Yes, you'll sink money into it that you won't get back, but think of the depreciation you'll suffer on any car that's going to rival the performance of a VRT. And ultimately, you'll be driving a pretty rare machine that'll hold its own against about 99% of all cars on the road.

[n3p 3]

Wow, again I come back and there's loads of good advice - it's appreciated. I'll try my best to keep up!

 

You don't have to wait for a VRT to warm up to ~ 100 deg before giving it boost. I never did on mine and I used it daily for 60K miles. It just comes down to owner preference but there's certainly no mechanical need for it if a top quality oil is used.

 

Traction is indeed an issue but decent tyres, an LSD and Racelogic TC improve things considerably!

 

Yep it's not a cheap conversion but what other cars can you get with 320hp/tonne for the price of a Corrado and a turbo kit? :D

 

Fish drinking wasn't a problem with mine as I mapped it myself. Mine averaged 27mpg over the 5 odd years it was turboed. Not bad for a 400hp 2.9 turbo! E39 M5s average 18-20mpg from the same 400hp.

 

I was in your position last year. I researched very thoroughly the M options and I decided the safest bet was the Z3M Coupe because it was a niche market car and therefore attracted more diligant owners/enthusiasts. But I needed £15K+ to get the more desirable S54 engined one and I wasn't prepared to spend that much. I also test drove an E34 M5 and an E39 M5. The former blew it's head gasket and brakes on the test run and the latter just didn't live up to my expectations, which was a real shame as it was a car I coveted so much when I couldn't afford one!

 

The E46 is a lovely car to drive but the ones I saw had exchanged owners several times. I suspect because, as you say, chavs buy them and then sell them on again once they realise how much an inspection 2 with tappet adjustment costs and it's thirst for 10W/60 Castrol Edge!

Too much of a gamble for me and they also sound a bit unrefined cruising at low revs because of the solid lifters.

 

I got quotes of ~ £350 - £500 for the Ms because I'm an old man now :D The VRT cost me £900 to insure!

 

Hi Kev, it's nice to know that a turbo can be a reliable setup if done correctly. I have no doubts about Stealths capability as they are rated so highly on the forum.

 

Alex303 has raised a valid point to me regarding a turbo install. I know Stealth have quoted me £5.5k for the Stage 1 kit, and I know that there are other things I'd need to buy (ARPs, TCS, Brakes, Clutch, etc). Would you have any idea of the actual cost of a reliable turbo conversion by them?

 

Also, seeing as you are Mr. Turbo - I am going to the US in July (Chicago followed by LA if it makes any difference). Is it worth buying any bits over there to save some money? I know there's the Peloquin or Quaide LSDs available, but don't know which is better.

 

 

Imagine what its like with a 3.68FD as well. Mine would go off the clock with ease. I remember one evening I was in 5th going along at 80ish and just put the foot down, the car just pulled and pulled all the way of the clock in a very short distance with no fuss.

One thing to through into the mix is how long to you think you would keep the car? I was lucky an pretty much sold my car for what it cost but it could take a long while to sell. A standardish VR is much easier to sell as is any fairly standard car.

 

If I went the VRT route then the Corrado would be a keeper. The only thing lacking at the moment is the performance - granted it's great for its age, but against modern metal it barely keeps up. As mentioned before, I have another car for normal duties so this would be a toy :norty:

 

I think you need to decide whether you simply want a faster car or a faster more modern car. If you just want to go faster then a turbo in the Corrado makes sense. But if you want something a little more confortable and modern then it won't compare to an M3 which will certainly be superior.

 

It's a combination of the raw nature of the Corrado and the obscurity that make me love it. The icing on the cake after Stanford Hall was on the drive back when I passed a white mk2 GTI on the M25 and we gave each other a mutual thumbs up. You won't get that in an E46.

 

Good point. My "daily" has all of the modern features needed (save for a built in sat nav), the corrado has enough IMO with its heated seats and air con (once I get it fixed!). I think that in an E46 I'd get a lot of "wrist exerciser" signs as opposed to a thumbs up like in the Corrado!

 

Didn't get a chance to say hello at Stanford Hall by the way - sorry about that. Wasn't intentionally being an arse or anything! Did have a poke around your motor when you weren't there - want your seats! Looked lovely.

 

I absolutely love my VRT. I've owned the car too long now to consider parting with it unless things get really bad...I hope they won't. I think the kids would go first!! But seriously, you don't drive it like a loon everywhere; you can't, just like you couldn't drive a Ferrari like a loon everywhere, and I certainly wouldn't thank you for one of them. Like so many comments here, it the exclusivity of ownership, the "I always wanted one of them" comments from passers by on a petrol station forecourt, the noise it makes and the friendship of fellow owners that makes me want to keep it. Going fast is great, but its going fast in a Corrado that I wanted. The VRT is, like Jim says, devastating. 40-100mph blows me away everytime: 4th gear is crazy, 3rd gear is insane; and it seldom troubles the traction (with a Peloquin) in the dry. Fuel consumption is not as bad as I expected - like Kev says, get somewhere around 28-30 in normal driving. Although I've just had a longer 5th gear fitted to help economy on the motorway. On a gentle cruise (70-80) before I would see 33-34. I now see 36 which is not bad for a VR of any description. And the roll-in power is more than adequate at that speed to offset the slight loss in acceleration at motorway speeds as a result,versus most cars you'll meet.

I think frankly that if its time to move on from a Corrado, then its time and you shouldn't do it on the grounds of lacking performance alone; but if you still love the thing given (like me) how much money and love you've put to it, improving the performance of what y've already got is the way forward. Yes, you'll sink money into it that you won't get back, but think of the depreciation you'll suffer on any car that's going to rival the performance of a VRT. And ultimately, you'll be driving a pretty rare machine that'll hold its own against about 99% of all cars on the road.

 

Thanks for the input chazrad - it's hearing stuff like that which makes me think a VRT is the only option to go! I remember speaking to Jim (aka The_Dude) of this parish, who went from a Vortech to a turbo. He said that while the Vortech was good, nothing compares to a VRT.

 

I know some may have an issue with sinking money into a motor that I won't get back, but we all do it for the love to an extent! Ever since I bought my 16v 6 years ago I wanted a VR6 (the natural progression)... surely a VRT is the next logical step? :norty:

 

Nick

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Hi Kev, it's nice to know that a turbo can be a reliable setup if done correctly. I have no doubts about Stealths capability as they are rated so highly on the forum.

 

Alex303 has raised a valid point to me regarding a turbo install. I know Stealth have quoted me £5.5k for the Stage 1 kit, and I know that there are other things I'd need to buy (ARPs, TCS, Brakes, Clutch, etc). Would you have any idea of the actual cost of a reliable turbo conversion by them?

 

Also, seeing as you are Mr. Turbo - I am going to the US in July (Chicago followed by LA if it makes any difference). Is it worth buying any bits over there to save some money? I know there's the Peloquin or Quaide LSDs available, but don't know which is better.

 

Stealth's Turbo demo car has been beaten to death for a good few years now and it's not thrown up any issues at all yet. Reliability is the main problem with VRTs but so long as it's built right and mapped conservatively, it should put in a good service life. Stealth send the turbos they use of to Turbo Dynamics for some upgrades, so they're pretty reliable and the engine itself we know is strong as they've been turboed since the late 90s!

 

Clutch - Helix - £450

ARPS - ~ £250 for the head and rod bolts

Quaife - ~£500 + £100 for the 'fitting kit' which is basically ARP diff bolts.

Peloquin - ~£500 but comes with the bolts.

Brakes - Minimum of 4Motion 312s with sticky pads really but I used AP Racing 330mm 4 pots on mine which were about £1300 6 years ago!

 

I can't remember exactly what Stealth's package includes but there shouldn't be a huge amount extra you need to buy.

 

If you're going to America, you could get the Peloquin and the ARPs. The other stuff I would source from Vince as I don't think you'll save a huge amount on the turbo bits as his pricing is pretty competetive to be fair. I also don't know where you'd stand with warranty and after sales issues if you sourced your own turbo bits. No disrespect intended, but if you're not mechanically minded, it's probably best to let Stealth do it all for you :D

 

A few of us built our own but if Stealth's package was around when I did mine, I'd probably have just gone with that instead as it was considerably cheaper than my setup!!

[poll250 0]

I'm in quite a unique position to comment here as I own and run both a Stealth VRT and E46 M3.

 

-I've had the M3 for a year and done 10,000 miles in it, 3500 of those were across Europe a month after buying it. I bought it knowing it would need an Inspection1 service (~£400) and 2 new tyres (£450). I also spent £350 on some H&R lowering springs. That's it, no further expenses. It stops, starts and goes fine. It's very reliable, comfortable and has immense power and grip as you'd imagine. It 'feels' properly fast and planted on the road, and pulls well despite only having ~300lb/ft of torque.

-Where I live M3s don't really have the chav image, unless you spray the rear lights and black the windows out.

-Insurance for both cars is very similar.

 

- I've never needed to wait until the VRT was at 98deg before giving it some, it's been 100% reliable (conversion wise) over 10,000 miles of usage

-Traction in the dry is fine with an LSD and Racelogic. It really cuts in very little after first gear. In the wet, you just use your brain - as you would driving a high powered RWD car...

-Acceleration is ridiculous in gear, I had a ride in a Gallardo LP-570-4 a couple of days ago and I'd say it would rival that in a straight line. power/weight would support this.

-The Turbo conversion really changes the character of the car, you really need to be ready to accept that, it also changes the noise notably

-The Stealth route is pretty comprehensive, but I'd really add a good few grand on for consumables- oil cooler for one

-I must of sunk over 15k into mine, and don't regret it for a minute. It was a project that I really wanted to do, and really enjoyed. I never considered the resale value at the time.

 

It'll be interesting to see what you choose to do, let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Andy

[n3p 3]

Stealth's Turbo demo car has been beaten to death for a good few years now and it's not thrown up any issues at all yet. Reliability is the main problem with VRTs but so long as it's built right and mapped conservatively, it should put in a good service life. Stealth send the turbos they use of to Turbo Dynamics for some upgrades, so they're pretty reliable and the engine itself we know is strong as they've been turboed since the late 90s!

 

Clutch - Helix - £450

ARPS - ~ £250 for the head and rod bolts

Quaife - ~£500 + £100 for the 'fitting kit' which is basically ARP diff bolts.

Peloquin - ~£500 but comes with the bolts.

Brakes - Minimum of 4Motion 312s with sticky pads really but I used AP Racing 330mm 4 pots on mine which were about £1300 6 years ago!

 

I can't remember exactly what Stealth's package includes but there shouldn't be a huge amount extra you need to buy.

 

If you're going to America, you could get the Peloquin and the ARPs. The other stuff I would source from Vince as I don't think you'll save a huge amount on the turbo bits as his pricing is pretty competetive to be fair. I also don't know where you'd stand with warranty and after sales issues if you sourced your own turbo bits. No disrespect intended, but if you're not mechanically minded, it's probably best to let Stealth do it all for you :D

 

A few of us built our own but if Stealth's package was around when I did mine, I'd probably have just gone with that instead as it was considerably cheaper than my setup!!

 

Informative as ever, thanks for clearing things up. I've just checked the US prices for a peloquin, looking at around £550. No idea what the price is over here as I can't find any for sale!

 

Forgot to say LOL @ the M5 blown head gasket story. Must have been an awkward moment!

 

I'm in quite a unique position to comment here as I own and run both a Stealth VRT and E46 M3.

 

-I've had the M3 for a year and done 10,000 miles in it, 3500 of those were across Europe a month after buying it. I bought it knowing it would need an Inspection1 service (~£400) and 2 new tyres (£450). I also spent £350 on some H&R lowering springs. That's it, no further expenses. It stops, starts and goes fine. It's very reliable, comfortable and has immense power and grip as you'd imagine. It 'feels' properly fast and planted on the road, and pulls well despite only having ~300lb/ft of torque.

-Where I live M3s don't really have the chav image, unless you spray the rear lights and black the windows out.

-Insurance for both cars is very similar.

 

- I've never needed to wait until the VRT was at 98deg before giving it some, it's been 100% reliable (conversion wise) over 10,000 miles of usage

-Traction in the dry is fine with an LSD and Racelogic. It really cuts in very little after first gear. In the wet, you just use your brain - as you would driving a high powered RWD car...

-Acceleration is ridiculous in gear, I had a ride in a Gallardo LP-570-4 a couple of days ago and I'd say it would rival that in a straight line. power/weight would support this.

-The Turbo conversion really changes the character of the car, you really need to be ready to accept that, it also changes the noise notably

-The Stealth route is pretty comprehensive, but I'd really add a good few grand on for consumables- oil cooler for one

-I must of sunk over 15k into mine, and don't regret it for a minute. It was a project that I really wanted to do, and really enjoyed. I never considered the resale value at the time.

 

It'll be interesting to see what you choose to do, let me know if you have any other questions.

 

Andy

 

A VRT and an M3?! That's just greedy! :) Thanks for the reply, interesting to hear an M3 owners perspective. Couple of questions I can think of off the top of my head:

 

- You mentioned sinking £15k into yours. If you don't mind me asking, was that for the complete turbo set up or does that price include rims, paint, ice, etc etc. Trying to gauge how much on top of the Stealth 5.5k is needed. I'm thinking around £10k total at the moment, but £15k is a different ball game. I guess some things I can upgrade at a later date...

 

- Which do you prefer?! :norty:

 

I wish I could make a definite decision soon, but Stealth won't be available to work on the car until Sept-Oct and I'll have to call them in July before I can pay a deposit (as they don't know their workload till then). A lot can change in a matter of months, but so far the idea of a VRT is growing on me

 

Nick

[poll250 0]

 

A VRT and an M3?! That's just greedy! :) Thanks for the reply, interesting to hear an M3 owners perspective. Couple of questions I can think of off the top of my head:

 

- You mentioned sinking £15k into yours. If you don't mind me asking, was that for the complete turbo set up or does that price include rims, paint, ice, etc etc. Trying to gauge how much on top of the Stealth 5.5k is needed. I'm thinking around £10k total at the moment, but £15k is a different ball game. I guess some things I can upgrade at a later date...

 

- Which do you prefer?! :norty:

 

I wish I could make a definite decision soon, but Stealth won't be available to work on the car until Sept-Oct and I'll have to call them in July before I can pay a deposit (as they don't know their workload till then). A lot can change in a matter of months, but so far the idea of a VRT is growing on me

 

Nick

 

When I bought the M3 last year, my intention was to sell the Corrado after getting the paint sorted a little and wheels refurbed. I guess I just never got round to doing that, and so it's still here!

 

Some points I can think of:

-The £15k was just the receipts I added up in my folder from the last 6 years, there's also a fair bit of undocumented stuff that I'd bought from the forum etc (+I did a lot of the work myself-so virtually no labour charges!). The figure included refreshing and rebuilding the car basically from the ground up, although it's never had any paint or ICE to speak of.

 

-The Stealth kit is very comprehensive, and involves so many man-hours that I struggle to see how they make any profit on it. If you've already spent a lot on rebuilding your car, then I'd imagine there wouldn't be too many additions to the base price. Mine went over as I had stage 1+ done: as I'd spent so much getting the car ready, I didn't want to scrimp at that stage, and was happy when I ended up with 380bhp/375lb/ft.

 

Both are very different cars:

 

-I've had the Corrado for 6 years and bought it completely standard, so I've put a lot of love and hours into building it. It certainly has a place in my heart.

 

-Although I like and respect the M3 for its power, looks and overall ability, I've never really grown to 'LOVE" it in the same way. Whether that's due to the noise, or fact that a lot of the enjoyment with the Corrado involved tinkering with it- perhaps that's why I think I've talked myself into picking up a B7 RS4 Avant in the next month or too... http://the-corrado.net/images/icons/icon6.png

 

Is three cars too many?!!!!

[jaded2882 0]

Is the red VRT still for sale on e38? That's a beauty, and would save you thousands compared to having it all done to yours. Just a thought!

[coullstar 0]

I believe it is, arches are made for the CH's as well. Thats my old car by the way. Hell you could buy it and swap everything over then sell it on with your standard VR running gear and it would probably only cost about £3k all in. Would be a shame to do that though.

[big ben 10]

Wow, yeah they don't come up for sale very often, and at that price!!!!

[Kevin Bacon 5]

Forgot to say LOL @ the M5 blown head gasket story. Must have been an awkward moment!

 

Yup! Got back from the run and the idle was rough as hell and the exhaust stank of burning coolant! Definitely the HG popped! If that wasn't bad enough, a rear brake line let go and sprayed DOT4 all over the hot exhaust, so noxious steamy clouds were coming out of both ends of the car! Not much he could say about it really, these things happen! It had been sat around in a barn for a few years prior though.

 

Poor thing. It was actually quite sad to see a pedigree car in that state. So few on the roads now as the Germans buy them all up for parts.

 

For a 1991 example, it was in incredible condition and it did drive nice, apart from the boat like steering feel. No torque below 4000 though, which in an 1700Kg car matters!

[poll250 0]

Hell you could buy it and swap everything over then sell it on with your standard VR running gear and it would probably only cost about £3k all in. Would be a shame to do that though.

 

I was about to suggest that he could do that with mine :afro:

[n3p 3]

Thanks all for the replies - and I've done a lot of thinking!

 

I weighed out the options, with the VRT and M3 both having their good and bad points. One shared factor though was cost. Despite a VRT stage 1 kit costing £5.5k, there would be loads of other things to consider, and I reckon I'd have to spend the best part of £10k to get it to how I'd like. Not cheap! In this case I had to think with my head, and plough a fair chunk of my budget into my home (boring I know!).

 

All is not lost though - I've decided to keep the Corrado for a little bit longer! But I still crave more power, so to squeeze a bit more out without spending VRT money I decided to go down the Supercharger route. Rotrex was my first choice, but I grabbed the first kit I found for sale which is a Vortech V1 Stage 2 kit. I remember being a passenger in a V9 a few years back and that thing shifted enough for me to nearly change my underwear (perhaps due to being a passenger with no control!). Have everything needed, save for needing a new boost pipe made up. The previous owner had his golf dyno'd at 290ish bhp at Stealth so hopefully mine will be similar.

 

Booked it in to Stealth for June 10th. In the meantime I'll be looking at Mocals and Water/Methanol Injection. I'm also using my trip to the US as an opportunity to buy a wilwood caliper kit. Guess I'll be travelling light to allow for the extra weight!

 

Thanks again for everyones contributions

 

Nick

 

PS - If any experts are reading - What intake would you reccomend? I currently have Ram Air, and I'm not sure if that's going to fit down in the wing!

[Billzeebub 1]

Good to hear you've decided to keep it, looks fantastic. Reckon you've definitely made the right choice

[big ben 10]

100% made the right choice. Good to hear. 290bhp is plenty as well :)

[KADVR6 0]

I had a v1 charger on one of my old corrados, it made 296bhp and was nice to drive apart from always bloody stalling when coming to a stop. But to me it just did not feel that fast as the charger gives the power as the revs rise, its just like driving a 3.9 litre corrado. Which aint a bad thing I suppose.

[n3p 3]

I reckon I've made the right choice in keeping the corrado at least! Also a charger can be removed fairly easily if needed.

 

I had a v1 charger on one of my old corrados, it made 296bhp and was nice to drive apart from always bloody stalling when coming to a stop. But to me it just did not feel that fast as the charger gives the power as the revs rise, its just like driving a 3.9 litre corrado. Which aint a bad thing I suppose.

 

Did you ever find out why it was stalling? I hope the charger just gives it that extra oomph when wanted, 296bhp sounds good!

[VWVW 1]

n3p I remember seeing you on the way out in Stanford hall. Mine Green storm too near the round about...Have you thought about putting a wanted add for a Vr6 Turbo. I think I will just go and buy a good one rather than converting my one if it was me. I wonder if Crazy dave is sellling his...Ive been eyeing up THAT one !!! :)

Edited May 20, 2013 by VWVW