oneohtwo's VR6 - New Engine!

[oneohtwo 8]

So this is what happens when someone doesn't check their blind spot and just pulls out on you on the dual carriageway:

 

 

Could have been a lot worse I guess, but means the wing needs respraying. The stuff on the wheel I think is just rubber from their wheel, or black plastic from some trim. It seems to come off a bit when scratched and the wheel underneath seems fine so that's something. Have tried the usual car shampoos but can't really get it off. Anyone have any ideas?

[GazG60 0]

Bummer. I'd definately get the steering geometry checked just in case something has been bent . Hope you got the other driver's details .

[oneohtwo 8]

Sadly not, it was at night and was a busy section of dual carriageway. When I got a chance to pull over they didn't, and I didn't get the number.

 

Yeah, you might be right. It feels ok, and it was a relatively small coming together thankfully. They just drifted across and I managed to take some evasive action, plus as we were going in the same direction at roughly the same speed. Such a pain though! Just another thing to sort...

[dbpvr6 0]

Great thread!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[oneohtwo 8]

Thought I could hear the timing chains sounding a bit rough, and yep sure enough it seems I've caught the timing tensioner just in time:

 

 

 

A bit longer and that could have been game over... So time for the new tensioner, and I guess I should do the chains as well, which is a big old job.

 

Whilst I'm there I think I'll look to do a couple of other bits as well as refresh the engine bay and smarten it up. Initially I'm thinking:

 

New (or cleaned) injectors

Autotech 262 cams (remap after perhaps)

Replace crack pipe and thermostat (had these bits from a few years back anyway)

 

And then fit the 288 brakes I've got hanging around, plus get the Bilstein B12s I've been hankering after for ages as will need to get the drive train off. Lots to do! If that all goes smoothly I think I'll look at the OBD2 conversion, if I can source the parts.

 

I'm just considering whether it is worthwhile taking the 'head off while I am here just to have a general look at things. If the cylinders are a bit knackered then it doesn't seem a lot of point doing the rest....

[_Matt_ 32]

Good work, I didn't have the confidence to tackle chains on mine so sending it in to Stealth. I'm having them do the same as you're thinking, head refurb, new head gasket but naturally if the cylinders are fecked then I'll consider other options.

 

I've fitted the B12 kit (remember to get revised rear springs - see my members ride thread for full details!). It's a great set up on the Corrado.

[oneohtwo 8]

Good plan, it is certainly peace of mind getting Stealth to do it. I had got to the stage where I was paranoid it was going to fail at any moment (and in fairness I wasn't too wrong) so didn't feel comfortable driving it anywhere and I am a fair way from Stealth! Plus I wanted to tidy the whole engine bay whilst I was there. I don't think I'll rebuild the head as that was only done... I was going to say recently but it's nearly 10 years ago, **** time goes. Anyway they re seated the valves, did a skim, replaced the seals and it hasn't done mega mileage since. About 30 000 miles in 10 years which doesn't seem too heavy.

 

Anyway, Have got this far...

 

 

 

Actually, a little bit further. Got the cams out and have commenced cleaning the wing. New 263 cams are on the way and have the replacement chain tensioner kit from Stealth. Next is to get the head off to have a look about and give it a clean. I think the cylinders should be OK as they were compression tested a couple of years ago and the readings were OK (170-180). I plan to take the sump off to give it a clean out and a general inspection as well, and replace the gasket, as there always seems to be an oil leak from somewhere, but it's so dirty I can never trace it.

 

Just wondering whether I may as well pop the pistons out and change the rings whilst I am there. As you can see from the pictures a fair bit of oil in the inlet manifold so might be worth it...

Edited May 12, 2019 by oneohtwo

[Dox 23]

If you fit new rings you need to at least hone the bores for a perfect seal

[oneohtwo 8]

If you fit new rings you need to at least hone the bores for a perfect seal

 

Good tip, thanks, and now having got the head off certainly will be having to do that either way! Not quite as good as I hoped, cylinders 2 and 4 are polished to a mirror finish, not even a trace of honing left. 3 and 5 still had some honing intact, but not a lot:

 

Head off:

 

Cylinder 4:

 

Didn't have time to check if there was any lipping at the top of the cylinder. Other things, lots of deposits in the coolant which isn't tremendous so will need a good clean out , and not sure why cylinder 1 looks is that much different in terms of deposits than the others? Burning better?

 

Then the other not so great looking news, found an area of pitting on the head gasket:

 

 

Now, it is locally isolated and there is a full seal around it, there's no path to a cylinder which I would have expected had the head gasket gone and exhaust gasses were leaking. So what I think this might be is old damage from when the head gasket blew previously. The head gasket was skimmed at the time, so I am wondering if they just took enough material off get a full seal around the cylinder but not all the way down to completely remove the damage as that may have been too much. That's all I can really think. Unfortunately don't have any pictures to confirm if it is the same area of pitting. So it does beg the question of whether it's OK to leave it as is or do something about it? Would appreciate some thoughts on that.

 

Also, deposits on the valves don't look great so maybe the plan of leaving the head as it is, isn't viable.

 

So I guess now I have to think what to do about the bores and head... I guess first thing is to get some bore measurements and see how badly they've worn and go from there. Any advice from experienced hands out there would be appreciated!

[Bauhaus 3]

I would be inclined to get the head reconditioned if its possible or source another good head as that pitting will always be a weak point for sealing effectively, but what coused it in the first place, was it sitting around without much antifreeze in the water? and whats the condition of the top of the block like?

 

The oil in your inlet maybe caused by worn valve stem seals in which case check your valve guides for wear also.

[1xshaunx1 27]

I agree ^^^^

You aren’t looking at a quick turnaround anymore in my opinion the pitting need drilling/grinding out and welding before skimming. The orange staining on the head around the valves in the last photo suggests water ingress. So you don’t waste money you need a plan that involves others which costs money, but there is nothing worse than spending time and effort doing something that needs to be done again because you were tight in the first place and then you loose heart.

[oneohtwo 8]

I would be inclined to get the head reconditioned if its possible or source another good head as that pitting will always be a weak point for sealing effectively, but what coused it in the first place, was it sitting around without much antifreeze in the water? and whats the condition of the top of the block like?

 

The oil in your inlet maybe caused by worn valve stem seals in which case check your valve guides for wear also.

 

I don't really know what caused it originally, it happened not too long after I bought it. It has always been topped up with antifreeze since I've had it. The top of the block is absolutely fine and looks in pretty good nick to be honest, the only concern there is the bores.

 

I think you might be right about dealing with the head... apart from being a weak point I'll always know it's there. and

You aren’t looking at a quick turnaround anymore in my opinion the pitting need drilling/grinding out and welding before skimming.

this sounds like it could get pricey so looking to source a replacement might be as cost effective.

 

nothing worse than spending time and effort doing something that needs to be done again because you were tight in the first place and then you loose heart.

 

Couldn't agree more! Looks like the bank balance will be taking more of a hit than first thought... the best laid plans!

 

First things first I think I'll get the bores measured, then look to start sourcing a new head, or take the old one to someone who does that sort of thing for a living and see what they say. Thanks for the second opinion both.

[Dox 23]

Piston no1 is cleaner due to head gasket failure, the coolant steam cleans the piston crown.

 

 

Oil in the inlet manifold will be from blowby past the piston rings via the breather system.

 

The valve stems will be caked in carbon too.

[Keyo 47]

Piston no1 is cleaner due to head gasket failure, the coolant steam cleans the piston crown.

 

 

Oil in the inlet manifold will be from blowby past the piston rings via the breather system.

 

The valve stems will be caked in carbon too.

 

Does anyone else get a little bit of blowby oil that drops out of the oil breather hose that joins to the intake elbow and drops on the chrome plate underneath , I believe this is pretty common on a VR6. ?? Ive changed my pcv valve and breather hose but still get a little as you can see its residue on the plate below.

[Dox 23]

All engine breath hence the breather system, if the engine was sealed pressure would build up until something allowed the pressure to bleed off = usually seals or gaskets giving oil leaks.

[fla 9]

You can fit an oil catch can to collect the oil. It has one end connected to the block the other to the vacuum system on the inlet. Gets rid of the pcv valve

[Keyo 47]

You can fit an oil catch can to collect the oil. It has one end connected to the block the other to the vacuum system on the inlet. Gets rid of the pcv valve

 

Hi Fla,

 

I'm familiar with a catch can as I fitted a JLT oil catch can to a S550 Mustang GT a couple of years ago and you did not need to delete anything, it did collect a fair bit of residue, however the Corrado the breather is connected to evap system and back to the block , so I would not fit a catch can personally as it upsets several components , I think a proper job is to get the valve seals done at some point.

Primarily the evap will release nasty fuel gasses through the blue solenoid that build up within the charcoal cannister, then through to the breather back in to the engine block to get burnt off. This would mean you would have these fumes venting into your engine bay into the cabin if left open or if blocked could blow up your charcoal canister.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Keyo

[1xshaunx1 27]

There is a man in Cardiff on Facefeck selling all. He got 2 heads for sale one of which has been refurbished for £500 it’s a TSR or TSW head ported I think. If you aren’t on give me a shout and I’ll get the wife to get his number if you are interested.

[oneohtwo 8]

Piston no1 is cleaner due to head gasket failure, the coolant steam cleans the piston crown.

 

Yeah that's worrying. Gasket looked in OK condition and the damage to the head was next to cylinder 5 not 1.

 

Does anyone else get a little bit of blowby oil that drops out of the oil breather hose that joins to the intake elbow and drops on the chrome plate underneath , I believe this is pretty common on a VR6. ?? Ive changed my pcv valve and breather hose but still get a little as you can see its residue on the plate below.

 

I always got this as well. A new PCV was the first thing I installed after I bought the car, as it was either missing or falling apart when I bought it, can't remember which. After that still got all the oil on the outside of the hose and dripping onto the exhaust heat shield. I always just assumed it was due to excessive blowby from worn piston rings or a bad seal on the hose - turns out that suspicion might have been right looking at the bores...

 

There is a man in Cardiff on Facefeck selling all. He got 2 heads for sale one of which has been refurbished for £500 it’s a TSR or TSW head ported I think. If you aren’t on give me a shout and I’ll get the wife to get his number if you are interested.

 

Is that from the Corrado FB group? Thanks, yeah that could be a good shout. Seems like a decent price... I would have thought refurbishing my old one would be near that price anyway.

[oneohtwo 8]

Right, after further inspection I noticed the top of piston 6 was damaged:

 

 

God f**king knows how that happened. I guess some debris got in whilst changing spark plugs or something. Anyway, that is less good, and there naturally is corresponding damage to the cylinder head. So that is at least 1 new piston... presumably I'd have to get all 6. I have therefore resolved that the block will have to come out whatever happens. The coolant jacket also needs a proper clean as it's pretty gunged up and I wouldn't want to do everything else and leave that as is.

 

As I see it I have 3 basic options:

 

1) Get existing head and block refurbished

Pros:

- Possibly cheaper option depending on how much work is needed - was quoted £250-£350 for the head rebuild

- I will know what has been done and can select who will do the work

- Original engine stays with car (not really a major issue)

 

Cons:

- Fairly sure block will need reboring, weaking/making the block more prone to overheating or future damage. I've not measured the bores, but not sure it is even worth buying the equipment to do that

- Will need full set enlarged pistons for the new bores.

- Head already been repaired/skimmed after previous head gasket blow. A second repair seems like it's never going to be as good as the first, which wasn't as good as brand new etc

- Seems less likely to last

 

 

2) Buy already refurbished parts, like this head https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECONDITIONED-CYLINDER-HEAD-VW-FORD-MERCEDES-2-8-12V-VR6-1992-1998-021103373C/163400027184?hash=item260b668c30:g:R4oAAOSwH3haLT-G

 

Pros:

- Head cost about the same as refurbing existing

- Already fully rebuilt with new parts and no prior damage/failures, so hopefully tougher

- If a block can be sourced can avoid overboring cylinders

- Can keep existing cylinders (except damaged one - may make no difference if have to buy a full set of 6)

 

 

Cons:

- Don't necessarily know history of parts

- Might be hard to source a new block in good condition. May end up needing same work done to it making it more expensive.

 

 

3) Buy one of the new old stock Cabmasters engines, that I think Jim Bowen had

Pros

- As new, everything should be solid for many miles (This is the big one really!!)

- Price was around £700 so if still that then not likely to be any more expensive than other options

- Can plug straight in, no rebuilding necessary

 

 

Cons

- Have already bought some parts for existing engine, but could sell on

- AAA not ABV so originality not quite there (I slightly like the uniqueness of the 2.9 and feel the Corrado should have it, but it's not a big one really)

- Dizzy, but presumably can swap my chain cover to keep the coil pack?

 

Need to check the price of the Cabmasters engine, but otherwise leaning towards 2 or 3. More I think about it 1 doesn't seem worth it...

[blue95 0]

FYI - cabmasters engine have been sat for a few years, I purchased one and would highly recommend stripping engine, inspecting, replacing any bits that look slightly off and replacing all seals and gaskets, would also recommend replacing chain guides and tensioners, they are still old....kind of a mini rebuild

[fendervg 33]

It's a tough one - if it was me I'd get a pro to inspect the head and make a call on it, and either go for a full rebuild or a reconditioned replacement head.

 

Jim had quite a few issues with the AAA engine once he took a closer look - worth checking out his thread. Not all the ancillaries are hte same so it's not a plug and play as it might appear.

[Keyo 47]

Yep need to get to a man who has seen this many times before, I.e Stealth Racing. For me personally It would be a big thing to keep the original engine if possible. I think cabmaster engine is a AFP engine off a MK4 V6 golf , so you would have to change a fair few parts I reckon .

Edited May 23, 2019 by Keyo

[blue95 0]

Yep need to get to a man who has seen this many times before, I.e Stealth Racing. For me personally It would be a big thing to keep the original engine if possible. I think cabmaster engine is a AFP engine off a MK4 V6 golf , so you would have to change a fair few parts I reckon .

 

Agree with you mate...which is why Vince will be building up my cabmastrs engine....he knows the VR6 engines intimately lol

[oneohtwo 8]

Thanks for the advice all. The Cabmasters are old Ford stock apparently, spoke to the guy yesterday, intended for the Galaxy/Sharan - not sure what code they are. Price is also now £1k which is a bit less palatable than the £700-800 that I am sure it was when Jim got his. With the need to strip it down and give it a once over as well, I think I may rule out that option unless all else fails. Don't like the sound of putting a "Ford" engine in the Corrado either!

 

Agree, some expert advice is needed, think I will give Vince a call. Sadly I am nowhere near Stealth (London) so difficult to take it along in person, but hopefully he'll be able to give a steer from the photos.

 

For me personally It would be a big thing to keep the original engine if possible.

 

This is the same for me as well, so would be my preferred option if it is practical!