C & R Enterprises.

[heliosjim 0]

Ordered some brake conversion hoses from them today for my Corrado and was very impressed with the level of customer service I received.

Steve Cresswell took me through all the details to make sure i got the right bits for the job.

I've used several of the big names in the past, none of them have matched C&R for attention to detail and service.

 

http://www.candrenterprises.co.uk/

[_Monkey 0]

Agreed, when I bought my Jettex off of them, they were very through when I was ordering, making sure I was getting the right exhaust.

[Supercharged 2]

Steve is certainly a knowledgeble chap, doesn't mind giving 'free' advice over the phone too - top bloke!

[daves16v 1]

Steve is certainly a knowledgeble chap, doesn't mind giving 'free' advice over the phone too - top bloke!

 

Agreed, took time out to chat last time I was down there.

[steveo29 0]

yeah theyre an alright bunch...did have a issue with em once but they sorted it in the end

 

i still use em, and theyre good for advice

[mrbeige 0]

Got my hoses from them when I did the MK4 rear caliper conversion too. Very friendly and good advice. Thumbs up!

[Furkz 0]

from a company that cant spell volkswagen they seem to be doing very well

[Supercharged 2]

..and who's that dirty looking bird on all there literature?

[olly elworthy 0]

..and who's that dirty looking bird on all there literature?

 

we like dirty 8) :)

[billinjah 0]

how times change i rang them abt 18 months ago spoke to a monkey about the brake line conversion, he knew nothing said nah sorry mate you cant put mk4 calipers on a corrado! told him to go ask someone else which he did came back said nah boss says yopu need mk3 calipers. oh sod off then!!

[olly elworthy 0]

i got my lines direct from goodridge for the mk4 callipers for £23 ,,,

[Storm Guy 0]

Just to give a balanced viewpoint - I've used them before - appx 13 years ago. 'OK' service. However as some of you may know, I've been having coolant leak issues - http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?93891-Thermostat-Housing-Leak

 

Anyway, after three (unsuccessful) attempts to get the leak sorted decided to take it to C&R. Must say, over the phone sounded like they weren't keen on even looking at it.

 

Explained the context and that I was happy for them to replace the thermostat housing parts and crack pipe with genuine VW parts in an effort to resolve the leak.

Also to fix a broken drop link with my Meyle part - which was going to be sorted separately but thought might as well get it fixed while its in with them.

 

I will stress, I clearly asked the guy on the desk to keep me updated! Car went in on Monday morning.

Researched the genuine main parts - total appx £130.

 

Car ready this afternoon, apparently fixed (will see if it still leaks in the morning) - bill.........wait for it......................

 

.......£810.89.

 

£400 in parts plus 275 in labour @ 55 / hr plus VAT.

 

To say I am p*ssed is an understatement. They have changed so many parts without even getting in touch.

 

Also (as just one example, there are more but hopefully you will get the point) ---- I had removed the cowl which fits over the housing (which covers the 3 sensors), as it was only going to be removed again.

They had ordered and fitted a new one (no comms).

When questioning the part on the bill (ie don't need it) with Steve C - (ie, one of the two partners who carried out the works) - he said he did not know I had it and so didn't see why it needed to come off the bill.

I reiterated I didn't need it - and Steve said he would need to take off the fan / and other parts (or word sto that effect) to remove it!! Bear in mind I was coming from work and had a suit on, I think he assumed I knew diddly squat about cars.

 

I said it wasn't complicated and that it simply clips into place - after which his attitude completely changed, rammed his hand down by the housing, ripped it off, stormed into the office, threw it across the counter shouting at the office guy - and I never saw him again.

This from an experienced VW professional. Sorry guys, am sure you've had great experiences with C&R but if this is the attitude - doubt I will ever be going there again. Will trust and hope the workmanship is spot on, but as I say will see in the morning.

 

Brilliant customer service? Make you're own mind up - but if you choose to use them be crystal about keeping you informed on costs - and I mean crystal, though even that may unfortunately not help you in avoiding costly surprises.

[seanl82 23]

Wow, really sorry to hear about such an experience. I didn't even know they did mechanical work, I thought they were just suppliers.

I bought my VT mounts from them about 18 months ago, and they seemed very friendly on the phone (not sure who it was I spoke to), and they did me a cracking deal so I was pretty happy. Obviously times change and you can never take things at face value which is such a shame.

[Cressa 44]

I used them years ago for a suspension change. Very knowledgeable and Great suspension but unfortunately the price quoted was totally different to when I picked the car up. ... so was not happy and never been to them since. Shame really

[Jim 2]

Just to give a balanced viewpoint - I've used them before - appx 13 years ago. 'OK' service. However as some of you may know, I've been having coolant leak issues - http://the-corrado.net/showthread.php?93891-Thermostat-Housing-Leak

 

Anyway, after three (unsuccessful) attempts to get the leak sorted decided to take it to C&R. Must say, over the phone sounded like they weren't keen on even looking at it.

 

Explained the context and that I was happy for them to replace the thermostat housing parts and crack pipe with genuine VW parts in an effort to resolve the leak.

Also to fix a broken drop link with my Meyle part - which was going to be sorted separately but thought might as well get it fixed while its in with them.

 

I will stress, I clearly asked the guy on the desk to keep me updated! Car went in on Monday morning.

Researched the genuine main parts - total appx £130.

 

Car ready this afternoon, apparently fixed (will see if it still leaks in the morning) - bill.........wait for it......................

 

.......£810.89.

 

£400 in parts plus 275 in labour @ 55 / hr plus VAT.

 

To say I am p*ssed is an understatement. They have changed so many parts without even getting in touch.

 

Also (as just one example, there are more but hopefully you will get the point) ---- I had removed the cowl which fits over the housing (which covers the 3 sensors), as it was only going to be removed again.

They had ordered and fitted a new one (no comms).

When questioning the part on the bill (ie don't need it) with Steve C - (ie, one of the two partners who carried out the works) - he said he did not know I had it and so didn't see why it needed to come off the bill.

I reiterated I didn't need it - and Steve said he would need to take off the fan / and other parts (or word sto that effect) to remove it!! Bear in mind I was coming from work and had a suit on, I think he assumed I knew diddly squat about cars.

 

I said it wasn't complicated and that it simply clips into place - after which his attitude completely changed, rammed his hand down by the housing, ripped it off, stormed into the office, threw it across the counter shouting at the office guy - and I never saw him again.

This from an experienced VW professional. Sorry guys, am sure you've had great experiences with C&R but if this is the attitude - doubt I will ever be going there again. Will trust and hope the workmanship is spot on, but as I say will see in the morning.

 

Brilliant customer service? Make you're own mind up - but if you choose to use them be crystal about keeping you informed on costs - and I mean crystal, though even that may unfortunately not help you in avoiding costly surprises.

 

Jesus - that is a horror story and a half.

[Crasher 3]

I will reply in a while when I have gathered my thoughts and those of the others involved and compiled the pictures of the work that show what I had to do,

Edited March 16, 2016 by Crasher

[g0ldf1ng3r 15]

I will reply in a while when I have gathered my thoughts and those of the others involved and complied the pictures of the work that show what I had to do,

 

look forward to reading this

 

it is sad times when things like this happen & makes me extremely thankful to have a mechanic I trust & have done so for 20 odd years

[Crasher 3]

I have had to do this in two post as I was exceeding the character limit

 

makes me extremely thankful to have a mechanic I trust & have done so for 20 odd years

 

Some of my customers have been coming to me since I started working on cars when I was 16, I am now 52....

 

Anyway, myself and John with the help of Roy have put this together from the best of our memories as best as we can after a week of TPS, ECP, GSF, TRW, Febi and Andrew Page etc incompetence induced misery… WHY is it that trade car parts suppliers are so utterly hopeless at getting the right parts to us on time even when we give them their own, the VAG and part manufacturers reference numbers?

 

My name is Steve Cresswell, the C in C&R and my business partner John Russell has contributed to this reply after mine. We have been here since August 1988. It does concern me (as pointed out to me by Kevin my customer who alerted me to this thread) that some people are not aware we have workshop facilities, they actually came first many years before we started selling parts and one of the reasons we did so was to enable us to obtain parts more reliably by having stock and then we started selling the bits we kept, it’s still a struggle dealing with suppliers though, parts are THE bane of my life!

 

Storm Guy booked his car in with us for Monday 7th March to deal with water leaks that previous attempts had failed to resolve, I don't know who had done the work but the parts were Topran/JP copies which I have seen cause problems in the past as they are made from copies of the originals and of sub standard Nylon 66, in fact we actively avoid buying anything made by JP Group or Topran if we can possibly avoid it. We had already ordered in a few parts but expected to need more.

 

My reply to your points

 

Explained the context and that I was happy for them to replace the thermostat housing parts and crack pipe with genuine VW parts in an effort to resolve the leak.

 

When I removed the water transfer pipe (I refuse to use the other name for it) I found the bore into the block behind the water pump was heavily corroded and there was no way it was going to seal with just a new pipe and O ring, as was evidenced by the previous attempt at smothering it with Red Hermetite sealant which had failed to stop it leaking down the block.

 

 

Unfortunately both the pics I took of the corrosion were blurred; the finished job gave my little workshop use camera something to focus on

 

To gain access so I could get my air die grinder in there, I had to remove the oil filter housing and oil cooler which meant ordering the Hengst type housing seal for the next day because for some reason we only had the Knecht type in stock (obsolete from VW), we normally keep both but we had both oil cooler seals in stock. With some gentle work with a cast iron cylinder head porting paper roll, I got a nice surface finish in the bore to which I applied a thin smear of Würth RTV just before I pushed the pipe in, this should seal the surface and prevent corrosion. With the oil filter housing off and drained, we thought it prudent to carry out an oil and filter change too whilst we were under there. We had to fit a new drain plug because the old one had damaged threads and the sump thread was a little burred so I ran a thread chaser through it and we used the new style one time use plug, we keep a bin full of Febi ones in stock.

 

 

I found the mounting face to the head was covered in more red goo with some advanced aluminium oxidization so I cleaned this off by carefully running a Stanley knife blade over it and then cleaned it with brake clear and blew out the threads with air. Again a slither of RTV just before fitting the housing should prevent future oxidization, and then I rebuilt everything using all new fasteners and the threads were brushed with a light coat of Würth aluminium paste first.

 

 

Whilst fitting all the new genuine VAG TPS supplied coolant parts (BTW, the chaps at TPS Bulwell say hello), I thought it a good idea to fit new temp senders as the ones in there were the cars originals and we all know how unreliable they are. I also thought it a good idea to fit two new oil pressure switches but I cleaned up and re-used the temp sender as it is not so important and it is impossible to buy the correct style NTC blade senders now.The switches and the sensors are by Febi Bilstein.

 

When we were ready to re-fit the oil filter housing, we realised that the gasket had not turned up as someone at TPS had screwed up and forgot to order it so we had to wait until Wednesday to finish the job and run the car up then.

 

Also to fix a broken drop link with my Meyle part - which was going to be sorted separately but thought might as well get it fixed while its in with them.

The top of the thread into the end of the ARB was damaged and required the thread chasing which meant disconnecting it at the other side (rusted solid, the bolt snapped) so it could be rotated down for direct access. The end of the bar was heavily corroded so I cleaned this up with a flap wheel and treated the rust pits with black Eastwood Rust Encapsulator and then sprayed the end of the bar with Eastwood Under Hood Black. The flailing end of the ARB had ripped the outer CV boot open so we got permission from Storm Guy to replace it. As is usual with the PR-2E1 suspension, it was extremely tight into the hub splines due to the factory use of thread lock on the splines and so to extract it I had to use a three point hydraulic press mounted to the disc bolt face. This prevents impact damage to the end of the CV joint, common when employing the “usual” method to remove it but it takes longer. With the shaft dropped down, the CV then refused to come off of the shaft in the “usual” manner so we had to disconnect the drive-shaft from the gearbox and press the joint off in the floor press using a support collar. The inside of the CV joint was corroded (what made it evil to get off) making it very stiff to move so we soaked it in the degreaser bath over lunch and then worked it until it moved smoothly, flushed it out with brake cleaner and then pumped it full with new genuine CV grease, checking that it operated smoothly on the shaft before installing the boot and squeeze clip. We used a genuine VW boot kit of the new Elastomer PQ35 platform design and also we had to replace the ball joint bolts and lock plate as the bolts are one time only and the lock plate was rotten.

 

I will stress, I clearly asked the guy on the desk to keep me updated! Car went in on Monday morning.

 

We called for each stage of the job and often got an answering machine and we left a number of messages saying what was going on, if it becomes necessary to prove this, we can get the phone record logs.

Researched the genuine main parts - total appx £130.

 

The parts used are as follows, all genuine parts prices are the current VW retail including VAT

 

Water transfer pipe 021 121 050 C £30.64

Thermostat housing 075 121 113 D £42.60 (incorrectly described as “thermostat” on bill)

Housing 021 121 121 A £18.11

Thermostat 075 121 113 D (incorrectly described as “housing” on bill) £32.89

Cover 021 121 133 D £18.11

Bolts x 2 N 904 762 01 £7.51

O rings x 2 N 101 392 01 £6.86

Seal 021 121 119 A £7.49

Bolt N 0147821 £3.24

Thermostat O ring N 901 368 02 £4.93 (on the bill as water pump O ring!)

Bolts x 2 N 101 961 03 £1.03

Bolt n 105 821 03 £0.71

Seals x 2 N 903 168 02 £5.04 (it should read 3x and incorrectly described on bill as a water pump seal)

Clip x 3 032 121 142 £2.81

Oil filter 021 115 562 £18.32

Oil filter housing gasket 021 115 446 A £12.34

Bolt £2.18

3 litres G13 coolant £26.46

Quantum Platinum oil £20.38

Outer CV boot kit 1K0 498 203 £24.89

ARB bolts x 2 N 019 504 3 £5.99

ARB nuts x 2 N 902 264 04 £2.35

 

See part two

Edited March 16, 2016 by Crasher

[Crasher 3]

Part Two

 

Non genuine parts used

Bolt x 2 (Würth M6x40) £0.84

Washers x 2 (Würth M6) £0.29

Oil pressure switch 028 919 081 H (Febi) £4.62

Oil pressure switch 068 919 081 D (Febi) £7.02

Sensor 025 906 041 A £7 (Febi)

Sensor/switch 701 919 369 D £24.96 (Febi)

Sensor 357 919 369 F £14.63 (Febi)

Oil cooler seal 038 117 070 (Febi) £4.40

Oil cooler seal 038 117 070 A (Febi) £4.40

Sump washer N 013 849 2 £0.49 (we actually fitted plug N 908 132 02, by Febi)

6.5 hours labour @ £55 + VAT per hour (reduced from the 8 booked) £429

12 point hub nut N 90587602 £8.34 (Febi)

Ball joint plate 1J0 407 175 £5.50 (Febi) (These look expensive, something I will have to look into)

Bolts x 3 N 101 277 07 (Febi) £4.61

 

Parts total £381.89

 

£400 in parts plus 275 in labour @ 55 / hr plus VAT.

 

The labour was £275+ VAT for the thermostat job and £82.50 + VAT (1.5 hours) for the CV joint boot. The CV boot would normally have been 1 hour but due to us having to remove the drive-shaft from the car, we charged and extra half an hour.

Labour £429

 

To say I am p*ssed is an understatement. They have changed so many parts without even getting in touch.

 

As I have said, Roy did keep you informed as much as we could

Also (as just one example, there are more but hopefully you will get the point) ---- I had removed the cowl which fits over the housing (which covers the 3 sensors), as it was only going to be removed again.

They had ordered and fitted a new one (no comms).

 

It would have not happened IF you had told someone that you had the part at home, as we were fitting new switches we thought it prudent to fit a new cover as it was missing as far as we were aware.

When questioning the part on the bill (ie don't need it) with Steve C - (ie, one of the two partners who carried out the works) - he said he did not know I had it and so didn't see why it needed to come off the bill.

I reiterated I didn't need it - and Steve said he would need to take off the fan / and other parts (or word sto that effect) to remove it!! Bear in mind I was coming from work and had a suit on, I think he assumed I knew diddly squat about cars.

I fitted it with the thermostat housing and assumed (incorrectly) it would not come off easily but I nearly had to break it to get it past the fan motor

I said it wasn't complicated and that it simply clips into place - after which his attitude completely changed, rammed his hand down by the housing, ripped it off, stormed into the office, threw it across the counter shouting at the office guy - and I never saw him again.

Yes I did have a mild temper tantrum, most people would in my situation, I was up to my neck in Passat 3C steering column electronics fitting cruise and a new steering lock which was giving me grief coding it in and I was dragged off this to come and explain what I had done and then got moaned at for doing the job properly. When I went back into the back office the phone rang (Roy was busy) and the conversation lasted for nearly half an hour and as I was finishing Roy came through and said Storm Guy says goodbye or words to that affect and I assumed you were OK. By the time I came back through, you had gone. You do seem a little obsessed about this cover though, it’s no big deal which is why I took it off and told Roy to credit it.

 

This from an experienced VW professional. Sorry guys, am sure you've had great experiences with C&R but if this is the attitude - doubt I will ever be going there again. Will trust and hope the workmanship is spot on, but as I say will see in the morning.

Yes, 35 years of experience and not too many complaints, yes some, we are all human and we all make mistakes, myself more than most, I think I try too hard. When told we have screwed up, we try to put it right which is why John gave you a 1 hour refund the next day when you called to say you were unhappy.

Brilliant customer service? Make you're own mind up - but if you choose to use them be crystal about keeping you informed on costs - and I mean crystal, though even that may unfortunately not help you in avoiding costly surprises.

 

Even when working on a newer car, it is difficult to keep a customer totally informed about every part required, when re-doing failed work on a 21 year old car it becomes much more difficult as the parts tend to be harder to get hold off and the fastest supplier isn't necessarily going to be the cheapest and you wanted your car the same day initially, this is getting to be a challenge on cars of this vintage, cars don’t get cheaper or easier to run the older they get. We do our best and try very hard not to compromise quality. I often run into trouble with customers on bigger jobs over costs because I am almost insanely fanatical about getting things right. Again it doesn’t always work out and I cause John and Roy stress trying to explain things to people but I would rather someone moan about the cost rather than my quality, it was Royce who said, "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten".

Johns reply

 

I was not in the office Wednesday but Storm Guy rang and asked for me first thing Thursday morning.

His main issues were that he did not understand the labour on the invoice which Roy had not made very clear because he should have altered the text to say “labour for water issue”, “labour for CV boot kit” and “labour used on job but NOT charged for”, I explained this and he seemed ok about it.

He also used the plastic cover or trim as an excuse to have a moan and said that Steve had told him it would take over an hour to remove but then took it off in seconds and had a go at Roy and then disappeared and did not return – I explained that Steve had specifically asked not to be disturbed that afternoon because he was trying to sort out an in depth electrical problem and apologised if he had seemed a bit short with him as a result.

Storm Guy then moved onto the fact that the parts had added up to about £400 which had shocked him and that we had not properly informed him of what was happening, I talked to Roy about this and I explained to him that this was not true as I had been in the office on a number of occasions when Roy had phoned him for authorisation or to tell him what we were doing and had spoken to him or left messages.

He had been told that we were ordering all genuine pipes etc and was ok about this – I think the problem was that he never asked for any costs, just agreed with what we were doing and I don’t think he realised how much some of the parts were adding up to and then on top of that Steve fitted new sensors which I explained made perfect sense as they were old and it would have been silly to put the old ones back.

I said that I had looked at giving him a 10% discount of the parts but it only came to about £38.00 so as a goodwill gesture I suggested a reduction of one hours labour which was £66.00 and he asked if that was the best I could do and I said that bearing in mind the fact that we had already reduced the labour figure by 1.5 hours, I felt this was fair and the best I could do. He said ok in that case you would accept it. We finished the conversation on good terms and I assured him that we had done a thorough job and I was confident he would be pleased with the work and he agreed it all looked good so far.

Before we came off the phone I asked for his credit card details and as soon as I came off the phone I put the refund through our PDQ machine.

As far as I was concerned it was sorted!

 

Steve… I have tried my best to remember everything correctly, it was a week ago and we didn’t make notes at the time plus it is late and I have had a full day. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to ask me and I will do my best to give you an accurate answer.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Crasher

[davidwort 0]

wow, that's a detailed reply!

I for one would not like to make a living out of working on old cars, after 10 or so years every job becomes a pig with plastic cracking, items corroded together or rusting away, broken wires, crap over everything, bodged rapairs, what should be a 10 minute job becomes a day long nightmare.

I have seen both sides of the customer-garage dealings and although much of the motor industry leaves a lot to be desired with customer service I do believe the customer should show more interest and understanding in the work on their vehicles.

My dad used to keep every worn/broken part to show the customer, some are interested, others just happy to pay whatever trusting the garage, some argue every little point as if it was some turkish market carpet haggle.

I'd certainly want updates from a garage if I knew they were looking into a problem on my car, but the customer has some responsibility to make sure they can be contacted and that they keep in touch, particularly on an older car.

But the bottom line is, either you want the job doing or not, are you going to scrap the car because the job ends up costing a few hundred pounds more than you expected?

[Jim 2]

At his request (which seems fair), and in the interests of being transparent, I have edited the posts from the C&R chaps specifically to remove Storm Guy's real name. Nothing else has been changed. Would ask if there are any future posts from C&R if they could avoid using the individuals real name and just use his forum alias.

[Storm Guy 0]

It’s good that you have taken the time to give an explanation and understandably as a business would expect you to respond to the post.

I don’t propose wasting too much time on this, think this has cost me enough. I have no axe to grind, and nothing to gain - what has happened has happened. Where I have questioned things below – they do not require responses.

Nevertheless, there are some factual issues which do need addressing.

Firstly – you will note that my OP was posted immediately upon my return from your garage on Weds 9th, not after discussions with John or Roy the following day.

Also (as just one example, there are more but hopefully you will get the point) ---- I had removed the cowl which fits over the housing (which covers the 3 sensors), as it was only going to be removed again.

They had ordered and fitted a new one (no comms).

 

It would have not happened IF you had told someone that you had the part at home, as we were fitting new switches we thought it prudent to fit a new cover as it was missing as far as we were aware.

 

I fitted it with the thermostat housing and assumed (incorrectly) it would not come off easily but I nearly had to break it to get it past the fan motor

You nearly broke it due to your 'red mist' – it is a relatively simple clip on / off – and after 35 years in the business, you will have known this – it’s just that you thought I did not, that your attitude changed. Not entirely sure why your stormed off into the back room when we were in mid conversation.

 

I said it wasn't complicated and that it simply clips into place - after which his attitude completely changed, rammed his hand down by the housing, ripped it off, stormed into the office, threw it across the counter shouting at the office guy - and I never saw him again.

 

Yes I did have a mild temper tantrum, most people would in my situation, I was up to my neck in Passat 3C steering column electronics fitting cruise and a new steering lock which was giving me grief coding it in and I was dragged off this to come and explain what I had done and then got moaned at for doing the job properly. …….. You do seem a little obsessed about this cover though, it’s no big deal which is why I took it off and told Roy to credit it.

I cannot read minds nor do I claim to know what people are up to behind closed doors – I take people at face value and treat people as I expect to be treated. I greeted you warmly and with friendship. Not once did I moan about you doing ‘a job properly’ or otherwise – Roy offered “would I like to speak to Steve to explain…”, at which point, and after being presented with a bill of over 800 quid – I said of course.

To be clear - no one is complaining about the quality of your workmanship.

This is about comms, customer service and garages making executive decisions at customers’ expense.

On the obsessed front - not sure where this came from – If anything you may recall from your reaction, it was you who made the big deal about this by having your ‘temper tantrum’ as you put it.

 

I should not need to tell a garage every part that is not fitted or removed , nor do I expect them to buy a replacement without checking, especially if the part is not directly related to the problem the car came in for. Proactive indeed and no doubt done with good intentions, but in that approach - why did you not also replace the protective plastic fan cover that sits above the rad, which I had also removed for your convenience? Understandably sundry parts will be required - it's about a judgement call and about what is considered resaonable and at which point do you need to escalet this to a customers attention.

[Storm Guy 0]

Part Two due to character limitations....

 

Johns reply

 

His main issues were that he did not understand the labour on the invoice which Roy had not made very clear because he should have altered the text to say “labour for water issue”, “labour for CV boot kit” and “labour used on job but NOT charged for”, I explained this and he seemed ok about it.

He also used the plastic cover or trim as an excuse to have a moan and said that Steve had told him it would take over an hour to remove but then took it off in seconds and had a go at Roy and then disappeared and did not return – I explained that Steve had specifically asked not to be disturbed that afternoon because he was trying to sort out an in depth electrical problem and apologised if he had seemed a bit short with him as a result.

 

…….and that we had not properly informed him of what was happening, I talked to Roy about this and I explained to him that this was not true as I had been in the office on a number of occasions when Roy had phoned him for authorisation or to tell him what we were doing and had spoken to him or left messages.

 

He had been told that we were ordering all genuine pipes etc and was ok about this – I think the problem was that he never asked for any costs, just agreed with what we were doing and I don’t think he realised how much some of the parts were adding up to and then on top of that Steve fitted new sensors which I explained made perfect sense as they were old and it would have been silly to put the old ones back.

With the greatest of respect –

….“an excuse to have a moan” – really? – Certainly cannot recall stating to you that Steve said it would take over an hour to remove it – because he did not! See my OP.

 

We called for each stage of the job and often got an answering machine and we left a number of messages saying what was going on, if it becomes necessary to prove this, we can get the phone record logs.

 

As I have said, Roy did keep you informed as much as we could

You stated that you were in ear shot of the phone conversations - not sure what you were listening to or where – “on a number of occasions” / “messages” came from?

Called at every stage of the job and often got an answering machine…mmm…..You left one voicemail one message on the 8th

You will also then be able to note that the summation of your calls amounted to the following;

 

1. C&R called at 12:10 on the 7th March stating that the thermo housing parts (3 components, seals plus crack pipe) required.

 

2. C&R called on the 8^th March at 11.40 (missed call), Returned call at 12:10 – C&R explained Steve had found some corrosion between the water pump and block, and if it was ok to do this work. Confirmed ok and asked of car would be completed later that day. Roy stated due to parts (gasket), not until Weds.

 

3. I called on the 9^th March at 14:04 to check status – Roy stated car ready, was just making bill up, 1 hour should be fine for pick up.

 

If there are others – then strangely they did not reach me.

 

 

He had been told that we were ordering all genuine pipes etc and was ok about this – I think the problem was that he never asked for any costs, just agreed with what we were doing and I don’t think he realised how much some of the parts were adding up to and then on top of that Steve fitted new sensors which I explained made perfect sense as they were old and it would have been silly to put the old ones back.

 

 

Firstly, ‘been told’ – think you’ve got this wrong - I requested all genuine VW parts once my understanding was clear on the VW parts availability – as per my leak thread.

“Seemed ok with it”

Please do not mistake my calm manner on the phone with being ok with it.

 

You make it sound like I am naïve when it comes to asking to be kept informed (what needs doing, costs or otherwise). Not sure how clear one needs to be. It’s an easy one for a garage to avoid – huh?

I never asked for components not directly related to the leak to be changed either – in any business you have a duty to be clear about what you are doing and how much it will cost.

 

A fairly reasonable expectation from a garage - unless of course you are living in another world. I expect all your other customers drive supercars and are not concerned with costs. May I draw your attention to several other threads right here in this very forum about your communications / costs record – so do not think I am talking out of turn. The reason for my OP was to give a balanced opinion, drawing to people’s attention the fact that they need to be clear and explicit on costs in any dealings.

If you cannot get hold of me – does not mean to say you make the executive decision to spend my money. Some strategic logic is required - how do you know the context – ie. that the car is not being scrapped or sold in two months or that the customer has other plans that do not warrant further investment on the vehicle.

 

When your car is in bits, it’s the garage that has the upper hand, the art of which many garages have unfortunately have excelled in. No doubt you have some long standing customers, but would also say you have through a lack of understanding of certain basics, lost a significant amount also.

 

Bill is very misleading and unclear – Quantities are confusing - states 1 / 2 which actually does not mean half but an hour and a half (explained as system peculiarity apparently when setting up the invoicing software).

 

Roy admitted that when discussing the invoice with John – he thought this was too much for the customer, and John agreed to take off one and a half hours labour. What was the concern or discussion taking place I wonder? - the number of hours labour or the number of parts changed, or simply the nagging feeling that after the fact, it had dawned on you that you hadn’t diligently updated or informed the customer as best you could have.

 

Granted we are all humans and everyone makes mistakes -

 

I will chalk this one up to experience – and suggest you do the same and hopefully you can learn and improve on your communications and dealings with customers.

Had someone taken me through the invoice – in an adult and business manner, rather than a temperament befitting a back street garage, notwithstanding the fact that much of it was ambiguous - with a clear explanation of what was done or required and why –(a simple courtesy one expects at the very least given the amount) – it may have helped gain a better understanding. As a business owner, the C in C&R is there for a reason and as such carries certain responsibilities regardless of the sh*tty day we may all have had.

Edited March 18, 2016 by Storm Guy